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Vi Wickam

Champion Fiddler, Inspired Performer

You are here: Home / Fiddling / Violin or Fiddle: What’s the Difference Between Fiddle and Violin

January 29, 2014

Violin or Fiddle: What’s the Difference Between Fiddle and Violin

fiddle vs violin: the difference between violin and fiddleWhat’s the difference between a violin and a fiddle? This is a question that I am asked at every gig I play. It is also a question that there are a LOT of answers to. Some are funny and some are serious, and I’m going to give you some of each.

Violin vs. Fiddle Jokes

  • When you are buying one, it’s a fiddle. When you are selling one, it’s a violin.
  • It’s the nut who’s holding the bow.
  • $125 per hour and a tuxedo.
  • You can’t play a violin barefoot.
  • It’s OK if you spill beer on your fiddle.
  • A violin has strings, and a fiddle has strangs.
  • About $5,000.
  • You’ll never find a violinist with a mullet.
  • A violin sings, but a fiddle dances.
  • It’s a matter of style. If you have style, it’s a fiddle.

If you have your own funny Β or joke answers, post them as a comment.Β 

Violin or Fiddle: Differences in The Instrument

When you look at the physical instrument you are playing, a violin is a fiddle and a fiddle is a violin. A good instrument is a good instrument whether being played by a violin or a fiddler.

That said, there are some tendencies that exist, but these are just tendencies, and do not constitute a rule.

Steel Strings

Fiddlers are more likely to use steel strings than violinists. In the olden days, everybody used strings made out of “cat gut” or “gut” a substance commonlyΒ derived from the intestines of sheep not cats. Β Gut strings create a soft and rich tone, but they are very tonally unpredictable, change drastically with weather changes, and making them is an involved process requiring dead sheep intestines.

In the early 1900’s technology evolved such that they started making strings out of metal, which is more resilient, more consistent, and less effected by weather, and cheaper. But the tone is brighter, and less rich. Also, the responsiveness of metal strings is super fast. And, they are very elastic, which makes cross-tuning easier.

Since then, there has been the advent of synthetic core strings, which give a warmer tone – more similar to gut strings, Β but are more expensive, and don’t last as long as steel (metal) strings.

I personally use Evah Pirazzi synthetic strings most of the time, but I am also a fan of Prim steel strings, and usually keep one instrument with Prim strings on it for cross-tuning purposes.

Flatter Bridges

It’s often said that fiddles have flatter bridges, so they can play double stops, but this isn’t true. Flatter bridges don’t help at all with double stops because 2 strings are connected by a straight line no matter how flat the bridge is. A flatter bridge does help with triple stops, though (playing 3 notes simultaneously).

Most good fiddlers that I know have Β bridge setups that are at similar angles to a classical setup. This allows for each string to be played cleanly without touching the other strings, but allows for triple stops to be played if you really play a big chord.

Lower Action

In general, fiddlers are more likely to have lower action on their strings than classical violinists. Lower action does mean less volume, and less string tension, but it does make it easier to play for long periods of time, and to play tricky passages. This is a balancing act between how much your instrument projects and how easy it is to play it, no matter what style of music you are playing.

Looser Bow Hair

Fiddlers tend to play with a looser bow than violinists. There are extremes on both ends of this spectrum, with some fiddlers playing with the hair touching the stick of the bow, and some violinists playing with absolutely no camber left in the bow.

That said, most violinists and fiddlers are somewhere in the middle playing a bow that is tight enough that the hair doesn’t touch the stick, and loose enough that the bow doesn’t bounce all over the place.

Cross-Tuning

I don’t know why the idea of cross tuning your violin (any tuning other than GDAE)Β to open tunings is so uncommon in the classical world today. In fiddle traditions, open tunings have been used to create a different sound, including drone notes, like you would hear from a bagpipe. Open tunings are also embraced on other instruments, including guitar.

There is a small classical tradition of alternate tunings called Scordatura, but it’s uncommon enough that I have never had an opportunity play one in many years of playing in orchestras. Interestingly, Scordatura is Italian for mistuning, which implies that there is something wrong with alternate tunings.

Some common fiddle tunings include: AEAE, DDAD, GDGD, GDGB, AEAC# and EDAE. These tunings allow for and enhance sympathetic resonances in the instrument creating beautiful tones when you are perfectly in tune with yourself.

I think it would be AWESOME if more violinists played around with alternate tunings. They really give your fingers something new and interesting to play with. Even songs you have played 1000 times become new.

Vibrato

Among some violinists, every note “deserves” vibrato. This is not so in the fiddle world. Not. At All. In fiddling, vibrato exists as an ornament, something to use intentionally, and not too often.

In faster tunes, vibrato is generally avoided altogether. In fact, when fiddlers make fun of violinists, it’s usually because they play fast fiddle tunes (often devil’s dream) with great vigor and excessive vibrato.

In slower tunes, good fiddlers definitely use vibrato, but generally do not vibrate as widely or as fast as classical players often do. In fiddling, vibrato should be controlled, and used to change the mood of the note. A good fiddler, like a good violinist should have the ability to play a note with no vibrato, lots of vibrato, and any color in between.

The difference between the words Violin and Fiddle

If you look at the word violin, it comes from the Italian word "violino" which means small viola. Β And according to the Online Etymology Dictionary:
viola (n.)Β tenor violin, 1797, from ItalianΒ viola, from Old ProvenΓ§alΒ viola, from Medieval LatinΒ vitulaΒ "stringed instrument," perhaps fromΒ Vitula, Roman goddess of joy, or from related Latin verbΒ vitulari"to exult, be joyful."

You may notice that Vitula could sound a lot like Fiddler. And, you will see that Fiddle came from the same origin via a different direction. Instead of coming through the Italian path, it came from latin through Germanic and Scandinavian paths.

fiddle (n.)Β late 14c.,Β fedele, earlierΒ fithele, from Old EnglishΒ fiΓ°ele, which is related to Old NorseΒ fiΓ°la, Middle DutchΒ vedele, DutchΒ vedel, Old High GermanΒ fidula, GermanΒ Fiedel; all of uncertain origin.Β 

Perhaps from Medieval LatinΒ vitulaΒ "stringed instrument," which is perhaps related to LatinΒ vitulariaΒ "celebrate joyfully," fromΒ Vitula, Roman goddess of joy and victory, who probably, like her name, originated among the Sabines [Klein, Barnhart]. Unless the Medieval Latin word is from the Germanic ones.

So, when it comes down to it, the origin of the words is the same. Fiddle and Violin both come from the same word that represents joy and victory. That’s not a bad start.

Myths

With a question like this, there are lots of myths and stereotypes, which may have some basis in fact, but are more often baloney than not.

Here are a few:

Fiddles are Cheap – This is just a bunch of bunk. Good fiddlers demand quality instruments just like good violinists.

Fiddlers Have Lousy Posture – While there may be some basis in this stereotype, you will find that most good fiddlers have very ergonomic posture and good technique.

Fiddlers can’t play difficult music – While the classical repertoire is definitely more demanding than the fiddle repertoire when you get to its highest level, you will find that fiddle music can be very challenging. In fact, few classical players can play double stops with the precision of great fiddlers.

Fiddlers can’t read sheet music – It’s true that fiddling is an aural tradition, so much of the repertoire has been passed down by ear over the years. But, most good fiddlers, can also read sheet music.

Fiddlers play out of tune – Aaaarrrrggghhhh!!!! This is the most painful of the fiddler stereotypes for me. Tune it OR Die! Good fiddlers play IN TUNE!

Violinists are Snobby – There may be some snobs in the violin world, but some of my best friends are violinists. And, I don’t hold it against them.

Violinists can’t play by ear – While many violinists haven’t learned to play by ear, many of them can.

If you have your own myths to add to this list, leave them as a comment.

What Really Matters?

When it comes down to it, the real difference between a violin and a fiddle today is a matter of style. If you are playing by ear, and free to improvise, it’s fiddling. If you are playing what is on the page with accuracy and precision, it’s violin.

Traditional folk styles would fit under the realm of fiddle. Fiddling is learned primarily by ear. It requires internalizing of the melody, and allows for some level of freedom in choosing how you want to present the tune. You can bow it with the bowings you choose, and even the notes you choose, provided you honor the tradition you are following. Β If you are only playing notes written on the page, you probably don’t really know the song yet. But once you know the song, then you have freedom to improvise with it.

I would also include playing violin with country, bluegrass, jazz, or rock music in the fiddle category. They are styles that are fundamentally improvisatory in nature, and allow for clear freedom of expression in your playing.

If you are playing violin in an orchestra, there is no room for improvisation. You must play with the same bowings as the rest of your section, or you will stick out like a sore thumb. You must play the same notes as the rest of your section, or it will sound like a giant mess.

But, even within the classical violin tradition, there is room for fiddling around. If you are the soloist, you have the freedom to bow it how you want, and you even get a cadenza now and again.

Great musicians of all times have had the ability to learn by ear, or by whatever method of notation was available to them, and they play their instrument with joy, which is really what it’s all about.

A Video on the Differences between Violins and Fiddles

So, I’m going to leave you with this little video where, I spoke about the difference between a violin and a fiddle (with MUCH less detail.)

 

Article by Vi Wickam / Fiddling, Musings, Videos / difference, fiddle, fiddler, violin, violinist 66 Comments

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Comments

  1. Caid The-Blade Jones says

    January 29, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    Hey! Great, and funny, article, Vi! Just wanted to say – there is a classical tradition of cross-tuning! It's called scordatura. Check it out! While it isn't favored like it is in fiddling – it is dne, and there is music out there for it! Cheers!

    Reply
  2. Caid The-Blade Jones says

    January 29, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    Hey! Great, and funny, article, Vi! Just wanted to say – there is a classical tradition of cross-tuning! It's called scordatura. Check it out! While it isn't favored like it is in fiddling – it is dne, and there is music out there for it! Cheers!

    Reply
  3. Caid The-Blade Jones says

    January 29, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    Hey! Great, and funny, article, Vi! Just wanted to say – there is a classical tradition of cross-tuning! It's called scordatura. Check it out! While it isn't favored like it is in fiddling – it is dne, and there is music out there for it! Cheers!

    Reply
  4. Steve Eulberg says

    January 29, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    “software” is what I answer.

    Great article!

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 29, 2014 at 2:26 pm

      Thanks, Steve! Good Answer.

      Reply
  5. Vi Wickam says

    January 29, 2014 at 9:29 pm

    Hey Caid. Thanks for the note. I had heard of scordatura, but I didn't know what it was. I will have to look into it.

    Reply
  6. Vi Wickam says

    January 29, 2014 at 9:29 pm

    Hey Caid. Thanks for the note. I had heard of scordatura, but I didn't know what it was. I will have to look into it.

    Reply
  7. Lee Mysliwiec says

    January 29, 2014 at 9:50 pm

    We just finished a long Fiddle Hangout thread about cross tuning (scoraduta) and Wikipedia has a Lot to say about it..

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 29, 2014 at 4:54 pm

      I’m going to read up on scordatura. I haven’t ever had the pleasure of playing a classical piece that uses it.

      Reply
  8. Scott Pendleton says

    January 29, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    From Byron Berline’s autobiography: A violin has four strings, and a fiddle has, too.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 29, 2014 at 9:19 pm

      That’s a great one, Scott!

      Reply
  9. howard marshall says

    January 29, 2014 at 9:02 pm

    Hello Vi, and howdy from Missouri,

    A couple more on the difference between a fiddle and a violin, from Missouri:

    Being interviewed by a St. Louis newspaper reporter when he won the Missouri State Championship loving cup in 1961 in Columbia, fiddler Leroy Canaday of Moberly was asked the difference; Canaday replied (referencing the then-common vernacular expression, “long hair music” for classical music), “The length of your hair.”

    Around 1985, the Kahoka, Missouri bluegrass fiddler and festival guru Delbert Spray said, when asked the question, “You carry a violin in a case and a fiddle in a pillow slip.”

    In a jam session, you don’t mind handing your fiddle to a stranger to play a tune, but you don’t risk doing that if it’s a violin.

    I’ll send some more as the come to mind, cheers, and keep up the good work —
    Marshall

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 29, 2014 at 9:20 pm

      Thanks Marshall. Those are good stories. Looking forward to more. πŸ™‚

      Reply
  10. Michelle Bell says

    January 30, 2014 at 5:38 am

    GREAT!

    Reply
  11. Howard Lee Harkness says

    January 30, 2014 at 7:32 am

    Well, you had all of the answers I knew, plus some. During a Q&A session at the January NTSO (ntso.org) concert (just before we played the Hardiman “Lord of the Dance”), that question did come up — and I supplied the “strings/strangs” response.

    Reading back over the etymology you covered, I did see one detail missing, namely that in German, the “V” is pronounced as an “F”. So the old word Italian word “viol” (any bowed string instrument, with or without frets) would have been pronounced by the English as “fee-ol.” Fee-ol is slightly hard to say, so “fiddle” would be a natural transition. There is a WikiPedia article on viol with more details, although it doesn’t cover the transition to the modern instruments in much depth.

    I have heard world-class violinists refer to their $250,000+ instruments as fiddles. In particular, I met Arturo Delmoni about 40 years ago, and heard him refer to the Guarnerius he was playing (which I think was on loan from Julliard) as a fiddle.

    Super article! I will be referencing it with my students — and anybody who asks me about the difference between a fiddle and a violin.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 30, 2014 at 7:49 am

      The German F/V connection totally makes sense especially when you go back to the original word, which is Vitula. Thanks for contributing this gem.

      Vi

      Reply
  12. Howard Lee Harkness says

    January 30, 2014 at 7:34 am

    Minor correct above — the Germans would have said Fee-ol, not the English.

    Reply
  13. Vi Wickam says

    January 30, 2014 at 2:49 pm

    Thanks, Michelle!

    Reply
  14. Vi Wickam says

    January 30, 2014 at 2:50 pm

    That's great, Lee. I will check it out!

    Reply
  15. Vi Wickam says

    January 30, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    I revised my section on cross-tuning to include Scordatura. AND, I added a bonus section on Vibrato. :p

    Reply
  16. David A. Day DC says

    January 30, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    This is a great brief presentation on the differences between a violin and fiddle.

    Reply
  17. Fran Shoemaker says

    January 30, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    awesome video. I am learning violin and watch all the different violin videos I can. I have only been playing for a year, and am still struggling with a lot of the bowing techneques. I have an execlent teacher who is very patient with me. By the way I am 67 years old, and have dreamed all my life of learning to play violin.

    Reply
  18. john ware says

    January 30, 2014 at 10:10 am

    The difference is the same as between a violin and a skripka. Skropka is the Russian word for violin.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 30, 2014 at 10:23 am

      Good call, John. I didn’t know the Russian word for Violin until now.

      Reply
  19. Vi Wickam says

    January 30, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    Thanks, Fran. That's fantastic. Mastering the bow is the biggest challenge of playing a bowed string instrument. Enjoy the ride!

    Reply
  20. Vi Wickam says

    January 30, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    Thanks, David!

    Reply
  21. Irene Snihurowycz Conley says

    January 30, 2014 at 6:04 pm

    Awesome article & comments πŸ™‚

    Reply
  22. Irene says

    January 30, 2014 at 11:05 am

    awesome article and love the comments πŸ™‚

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 30, 2014 at 8:59 pm

      Thanks, Irene!

      Reply
  23. Tim Rued says

    January 30, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    The flat bridge is not so much for playing double-stops as for reducing the distance your elbow must travel when switching between strings. If you are to play for 6 – 8 hours without a break (as fiddlers sometimes do), those few inches of movement make a big difference in how tired your arm gets! The flatter bridge does require more precision than the violin setup, though. The original Cremona instruments, by the way, all had lower and flatter bridges than are currently the norm for violinists.

    Reply
  24. Tim Rued says

    January 30, 2014 at 11:33 am

    The flat bridge a fiddler uses is not so much for easier play of double stops, but to reduce the amount of arm movement when switching between strings. If you play 6 – 8 hours at a stretch without a break (as many fiddlers do), those few inches make a big difference in how tired your arm gets! As an aside, the original Cremona instruments all had lower and flatter bridges than is now the norm for violinists.

    Reply
  25. Kathi Sharples says

    January 30, 2014 at 8:28 pm

    My uncle, who was self taught, as I am, always said 'a violin is an educated fiddle' πŸ™‚

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 30, 2014 at 8:59 pm

      A violin has been to college, eh? πŸ™‚

      Reply
  26. Robert Patterson says

    January 30, 2014 at 8:30 pm

    I like the beer answer best…lol

    Reply
  27. Tom Knowles says

    January 30, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    Thanks. Nice article and demo. But, as a musician I've never been able to understand why an audience tries to clap in time. They are making so much noise that no one can hear the music! Oh well, what do I know?

    Reply
  28. Vi Wickam says

    January 31, 2014 at 4:09 am

    Interesting thoughts, Tim. You are right about the original violins being different. They also had shorter necks, and used gut strings.

    Reply
  29. Vi Wickam says

    January 31, 2014 at 4:11 am

    It happens. And, if they are clapping, you know that they are having fun.

    Reply
  30. Vi Wickam says

    January 31, 2014 at 4:12 am

    The violin has gone to college, and fiddle has gone to the school of hard knocks.

    Reply
  31. Vi Wickam says

    January 31, 2014 at 4:13 am

    The truth is, I would be very upset if someone spilled beer on my fiddle. πŸ˜‰

    Reply
  32. Bruce Sedloff says

    January 31, 2014 at 11:31 pm

    How do you know you "finished" it, as you say? Methinks Pogo gets the last word.

    Reply
  33. Joe Shelby says

    February 2, 2014 at 12:46 pm

    In the origin-of-the-word department, another key link is that the latin/german spelling of the word survived into the Gaelic languages as well, as Fidhle.

    As for Vibrato, there's a history of it being horribly over-used in the mid-20th century in places it didn't belong. Bernstein dedicated a Young Persons Concert once to the whole practice of playing 18th century symphonies in a late 19th century style (extreme dynamics, extreme tempo changes, extreme vibrato, and using all 110 players instead of classical's more typical 65). That and others at least have reduced the abuse of vibrato in situations it didn't belong.

    20th Century composers (esp Stravinsky) have tended to be very explicit on writing into the score where vibrato should or shouldn't be used, knowing the romantic habits that the players learn.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      February 4, 2014 at 8:13 am

      That’s good info, Joe. Thanks for sharing. One thing I do appreciate about 20th century music is that they looked to expand the palette of what sounds an instrument could make – or at least explicitly specify those sounds. On interesting comment on the Word origin side referenced also the German pronunciation of a V as the F sound. It is the same phoneme, but just a question of voiced or unvoiced.

      Reply
  34. Leta DuBord Martin says

    February 2, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    totally enjoyed your video! I think you're awesome with both Fiddle and Violin!

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      February 4, 2014 at 8:10 am

      Thanks, Leta!

      Reply
  35. Caid The-Blade Jones says

    February 2, 2014 at 11:21 pm

    BONUS

    Reply
  36. Simon Musgrave says

    February 2, 2014 at 6:33 pm

    Nice article – thanks!

    The two best known uses of scordatura in the violin repertoire are:
    – the solo violin in the second movement of Mahler’s 4th symphony, which uses an instrument tuned up a semitone – marked in the score “Wie ein Fidel”
    – the Rosary Sonatas of Biber (17th centruy Austrian composer) Andrew Manze’s recording (http://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Rosary-Heinrich-Ignaz-Franz/dp/B0002JP5DG/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391390733&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=bbier+manze) of these works includes a track where he explains and demonstrates what is going on. In the set of fifteen sonatas, only the first and the last use standard (GDAE) tuning. The most extreme variation is a sonata with D and A strings swapped, then instrument tuned GGDD

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      February 4, 2014 at 8:09 am

      Wow! That’s intense, Simon. Thanks for sharing. Swapping out strings between pieces would certainly make performing the concert a challenge.

      Reply
  37. Ash Reeder says

    February 20, 2014 at 8:19 pm

    After many years of thinking about the question: whats the difference between a violin and a fiddle.
    I have boiled it down to one word,,,,, LESSONS!
    well okay, not so true nowadays, but in the ’70s in florida,,,, very true.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      February 20, 2014 at 9:13 pm

      Are you saying that fiddlers have taken more lessons? That’s not very nice to the violinists. πŸ˜‰

      Vi

      Reply
  38. Vi Wickam says

    March 4, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    Thanks, Leta!

    Reply
  39. Vi Wickam says

    March 4, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    Thanks, Leta!

    Reply
  40. Vi Wickam says

    March 4, 2014 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks, Irene!

    Reply
  41. Vi Wickam says

    March 4, 2014 at 8:24 pm

    Thanks, Irene!

    Reply
  42. Vi Wickam says

    March 4, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    Thanks for your thoughtful response, Joe. Those are some very good considerations.

    Reply
  43. Vi Wickam says

    March 4, 2014 at 8:27 pm

    Thanks for your thoughtful response, Joe. Those are some very good considerations.

    Reply
  44. Gary Trembly says

    March 22, 2014 at 10:18 am

    If you’re playing in Carnegie Hall, or playing Bach or something such as that, it’s a violin. If you’re playing in Nashville, or Texas, or are playing “Cotton Eyed Joe,” it’s a fiddle.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      March 25, 2014 at 4:31 pm

      Yes, but what if you are playing Cotton Eyed Joe in Carnegie Hall? Hmmm….. πŸ™‚

      Reply
    • Amelia Harris says

      January 4, 2021 at 4:19 pm

      Fiddles have been played in Carnegie hall.

      Reply
  45. Cindy Livingston says

    March 26, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    I once read a great response to this question but cannot remember the source. Perhaps, one of you may know. It came from a well known fiddler who made a pretty good living from his fiddling so I am thinking Bobby Hicks, Kenny Baker, Bob Wills, or Johnny Gimble. The response was: A violin makes pretty music; a fiddle makes money.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      March 27, 2014 at 9:39 am

      Cindy, That is a great answer. πŸ™‚

      Reply
  46. Stacey Duna Shetter says

    March 31, 2016 at 4:15 am

    I disagree with alot..however I thought a fiddle was held in the arms and a violinist is under his chin

    Reply
  47. Mike says

    October 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm

    The difference between a fiddle and a violin? Practice!

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      October 6, 2019 at 6:59 pm

      Do you mean that if you practice your violin enough you can eventually learn to play fiddle music?

      Reply
  48. Amelia says

    January 4, 2021 at 4:18 pm

    I’d heard a version of the beer joke, but one I like a bit better for ryythm.

    What’s he difference between a fiddle and a violin? You spill brandy on a violin and whiskey on a fiddle.

    Reply
    • Vi Wickam says

      January 4, 2021 at 7:28 pm

      That’s a good one!

      Reply

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